CSS3 Module: Lists Comments

Public Note 20 March 2003

This version:

Public Note 20 March 2003

Previous version:

Public Note 17 October 2002

Authors (alphabetically):

Musheg Arakelyan (Croll)

Alexander Savenkov (Croll)

Daniel Yacob (Ge’ez Frontier Foundation)

This note is the second public release of the CSS3 Module: Lists comments. The note provides discussion of the new draft. The numbering scheme of this note corresponds to the one used in that document for better understanding. Most parts of this document are taken from the previous version, though a lot of unused features are removed, others are corrected to be in accordance with the new draft and with the feedback received by the authors. The original text below has a default color, the comments are marked with green.

Abstract

This CSS level 3 module describes how lists are styled.

Add: 'This draft corrects and extends the CSS2 lists section.'

Status of This Document

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Contents

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1. Dependencies on other modules

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2. Introduction

...Implementation experience suggested the CSS2 model overloaded the ::before and ::after pseudo-elements with too much behavior, while at the same time introducing new properties when existing properties were sufficient...

Change 'suggested' to 'proved'.

...

For instance, the following example illustrates how markers may be used to add parentheses around each numbered list item. This HTML application and style sheet:

Change example language to XHTML or at least to HTML 4.01.

3. Declaring a List Item

A definition for a 'counter' would be useful here. What exactly is a counter? Either a link to Generated Content could be provided or the definition could be inserted here.

4. List Content: The 'list-style-type' property

...Most numbering systems have a suffix defined. It is used when generating the default content for the marker...

Is it better to use 'postfix' term instead of 'suffix'? An example is also welcome, e. g.: "For example, it is common to put a full-stop after decimal numbers that are list markers."

normal

Causes the list-style-type of the counter to be used, as declared by the appropriate @counter rule. In the context of an @counter rule, equivalent to decimal.

Add a link to the Generated Content Module or provide a description of the @counter rule.

Other values are defined in the following sections. User agents should follow these algorithms unless a more normative source is found.

This degree of interpretation is a bit too flexible for a specification! Please change to: 'Conforming user agents should strictly follow these algorithms.' Furthermore, if any algorithms are uncertain perhaps they should be removed from the specification if they can not be further refined.

4.1. Glyphs

All markers with the same glyph style should use the same glyph.

Add: "These are typically employed in unordered lists in HTML where the order of the elements is not important."

To obtain other glyphs, authors should use the 'content' property of the ::marker pseudo-element.

Could you specify an example?

...

check

A check mark. On interactive media, it is suggested that the same glyph which is used on the platform to render a checked menu item be used for 'check'. (like ✓ U+2713 CHECK MARK)

For this and the 'diamond' value add a link to Basic UI Module and provide a brief description of their use cases (e. g., check is for checkboxes and diamond is for radio buttons).

hyphen

A hyphen bullet. (like ⁃ U+2043 HYPHEN BULLET or – U+2013 EN DASH)

or — U+2014 EM DASH or ― U+2015 HORIZONTAL BAR. In Russian it is common to use an EN or EM DASH as a list marker. The authors have never seen U+2043 as a list marker and suggest it be renamed 'dash' which is more accurate.

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4.2. Algorithmic

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armenian, lower-armenian

Remove 'armenian' because of the incorrect implementations. Place a note: "Note: in this CSS version 'armenian' value (which was present in CSS2) is removed. User agents that care about compatibility with existing style sheets may also accept 'armenian' value but are required to treat it as if it was 'lower-armenian' and according to the algorithm specified next."

This is a simple additive system defined for the range 1 to 99999999.

Be careful. The range is from 1 to 9,999,999 (i. e. nine million nine hundred ninety nine thousand nine hundred ninety nine, not ninety nine million).

The digits are split into two groups of four (if there are less than eight digits, the least significant group is filled first). Within each group, appropriate digits are picked from the following list (at most one per column) and written in descending order by value (thousands first). Any characters in the most significant group are then combined with a circumflex accent, ◌̂ U+0302.

This definition is too complex. Would it be better to change it to: 'The number is divided by one thousand. The digits before and after the comma are separately transformed into Armenian according to the following table (zeros are not rendered at all). Each character before the comma is combined with U+0302 COMBINING CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT. The number is mupltiplied by one thousand back.

...table...

The two characters for the 7000 digit should be combined and rendered as one character. When the U+0302 character combines with the 7000 characters, it does so as if the two characters were one.

It is necessary to change the note to the following: 'Note: there are two codepoints for the 7000 number due to an error in the Unicode 3 standard. Actually there's no separate character for now, but the appropriate errata report is going to be sent to the Unicode Consortium. For now, user agents are advised to render the two characters so that they have some space between them, though the space should be less than between the normal characters. When U+0302 character combines with 7000, it does so as if the two characters were one. This rule is essential for both 'lower-armenian' and 'upper-armenian' systems.

lower-roman

According to the Unicode Standard 3.0 (see chapter 12.3) lowercase variants of the Roman numerals U+2170-U+217f have been encoded for compatibility with East Asian standards. The Roman numerals can be composed of sequences of the appropriate Latin letters. Why are you using them?

upper-armenian

...

ISSUE: There are two letters for 10,000 and 20,000 (U+0555 and U+0556 respectively), but whether and how they should be used is unclear.

Some clarification: U+0555 and U+0556 are employed neither in 'lower-armenian' nor in 'upper-armenian'. To express these numbers use U+053a and U+053b respectively with combining circumflex accent.

upper-roman

According to the Unicode Standard 3.0 (see chapter 12.3) uppercase variants of the Roman numerals U+2160-U+216f have been encoded for compatibility with East Asian standards. The Roman numerals can be composed of sequences of the appropriate Latin letters. Why are you using them? On the other hand why aren't you using U+2183 where appropriate?

In the example the number 7000 is written like VII with overbar, should it be ↁMM (U+2181 U+004D U+004D), and so on for 4 million and 4 billion? Is the algorithm exact?

Also please organize the use of the words "number", "figure", and "digit". A number can consist of mupliple digits.

coptic

The coptic numeral system should be supported. The following algorithm converts decimal digits to coptic numbers.

1. Split the number into groups of three digits, starting with the least significant decimal digit.
2. Number each group sequentially, starting from the least significant as group number zero.
3. For each group, replace digits for the ones, tens and hundreds places with their respective Coptic counterparts.
4. Place an overline above each member of the 0th group.
5. For all groups after the 0th, place 'n' underlines below each group member where 'n' is the group number.
6. Concatenate the groups into one string.

This system is defined for all numbers greater than zero. For zero and negative numbers, the decimal system is used instead. The suffix for the coptic-numeric numbering systems is a dot . U+002E.

Coptic numbering system

Hundreds			Tens			Units
Values	Codepoints		Values	Codepoints		Values	Codepoints
100	U+03c1	ρ	10	U+03b9	ι	1	U+03b1	α
200	U+03f2	ϲ	20	U+03ba	κ	2	U+03b2	β
300	U+03c4	τ	30	U+03b3	γ	3	U+03bb	λ
400	U+03c5	υ	40	U+03bc	μ	4	U+03b4	δ
500	U+03c6	φ	50	U+03bd	ν	5	U+03b5	ε
600	U+03c7	χ	60	U+03be	ξ	6	U+03db	ϛ
700	U+03c8	ψ	70	U+03bf	ο	7	U+03b6	ζ
800	U+03c9	ω	80	U+03c0	π	8	U+03b7	η
900	U+03e3	ϣ	90	U+03e5	ϥ	9	U+03b8	θ

ethiopic-numeric

Step 3 in W3C Working Draft 7 November 2002 should become:
 

3. If the group has an odd number (as given in the previous step) and has the value 1, or if the group is the most significant one and has the value 1, or if the group has the value zero, then remove the digit (but leave the group if the group has an even number, so it still has a separator appended below).

...

4.3. Numeric

...

...If an alphabetic system is selected to render zero or a negative number then the decimal numbering style must be used instead.

This is appropriate for the Alphabetic section.

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4.4. Alphabetic

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Change the definitions of 'lower-latin' and 'upper-latin' in this way: exclude the letters 'j' U+006A ('J' U+006A), 'u' U+0075 ('U' U+0055) and 'w' U+0077 ('W' U+0057), which were not present in Latin orthography at the end of the Roman Empire. The base then changed to '23' accordingly.

Add the following systems:

...

4.6. Non-repeating

These systems are excessive. Chapter 12.8 of the Unicode 3.0 reads: 'The enclosed numbers and Latin letters of this block come from several sources, chiefly East Asian standards, and are provided for compatibility with them.' Thus they are not needed in the CSS3 Lists. We suggest to remove the whole section 4.6.

4.7. Unsupported list styles

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Change example language to XHTML or at least to HTML 4.01.

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7. Marker Position: The 'list-style-position' property

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Change example language to XHTML or at least to HTML 4.01.

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8. The 'list-style' shorthand property

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Change example language to XHTML or at least to HTML 4.01.

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9. Markers: The ::marker pseudo-element

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Change examples language to XHTML or at least to HTML 4.01.

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11. Sample style sheet for HTML 4.0

Change the name in the heading to HTML 4.01.

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Instead of:

  /* Default list style types for unordered lists up to 3 deep */
  ul { list-style-type: disc; }
  ul ul { list-style-type: square; }
  ul ul ul { list-style-type: circle; }
  ul ul ul ul { list-style-type: box; }
  ...
  

Make use of the new selectors:

  /* Default list style types for unordered lists */
  ul { list-style-type: disc; }
  ul>ul:nth-child(3n+1) { list-style-type: square; }
  ul>ul:nth-child(3n+2) { list-style-type: circle; }
  ul>ul:nth-child(3n+3) { list-style-type: box; }
  

Provide additional stylesheets for XHTMLs?

Acknowledgments

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Father Kyrillos Makar of the St. Mary & St. Mina Churches of Clearwater, Florida who defined 'coptic', 'lower-coptic' and 'upper-coptic' and Andrey Astakhov who investigated '-ukrainian' lists.

Modified: 2003-03-20T13:44:40-04:00